CCOs Alex Derwin and Evan Roberts Urge Creatives to “Strip Away Awkwardness”, “Scale Cringe Mountain”

​Rick Barry’s Alex Derwin and Tightknit’s Evan Roberts believe agencies and brands must “scale cringe mountain” when it comes to platforms like TikTok.

Speaking at TikTok’s activation as part of SXSW Sydney, the indie agency founders said teams which are “native and attuned” to digital culture can respond to it better without traditional approval processes.

Alex, formerly BMF Australia’s CCO, left “traditional agencies” behind to co-found indie Rick Barry last year alongside The Monkeys’ CSO Hugh Munro. Traditional agencies, he said, tend to have a “heritage of being process-driven” that is not compatible with platforms like TikTok.

“That's a killer if you want to move quickly,” he said.

“It's not like agencies are the only ones that suffer from process fatigue, but you really do have to strip away all that approval process, all of that awkwardness, and have people who are just very, very native and attuned to make decisions quickly.

“Creatives are really good at thinking of things that are culturally on point quickly, [and] could get to market quickly, but so many things get killed when you're waiting for approval. So how do you build teams? I think smaller indies are [probably] more capable of doing this -- build teams that can move quickly, and trust the client will allow you to move that quickly.”

Brands must also respect that there are communities that “boldly go places you’re not prepared to.”

“You've got to scale cringe mountain,” he said.

“Otherwise, you'll be in paralysis, you won't do anything. Any creative act starts with a moment of, ‘Am I going to embarrass myself here?’ So yes, get all those things in place and then just take a bravery pill and do it.

“Culture changes so quickly. You can be out there and make a small mistake. If you know your identity well enough, it's only going to be a small mistake. If you know what you stand for, it's only gonna be a small mistake.”

Fellow indie founder and chief creative, Tightknit’s Evan Roberts, formerly the CCO at TBWA\Sydney, agreed. Agencies and brands shouldn’t adhere to the “best practices” of the wrong platforms, he added.

“I probably wouldn't roll in taking best practice from other platforms, and start walking in and screaming your brand's name or your product straight away,” Evan said of how to show up on social platforms. “Buy everyone a drink first.

“Your wheel of humanity is a good place to start -- turn up and be current, be open, be human. Do all those things, because it is a human conversation you're having.

“It comes down to a couple of things that are hard to teach. One is experience, the other is taste. So yes, pre-plan it all, but you also need people who have been through it to a degree -- [who] understand it and have seen these things before.”

Fashion, beauty, and pop-culture content creator Aicha Robertson said brands that tap into cultural and personal relevance are not only more likely to be noticed, but to build trust, loyalty, and long-term growth.

“Communities like TravelTok have reshaped how tourism boards market destinations,” Aicha said.

“WellnessTok is redefining how we think about health categories, and BookTok has turned obscure titles into global bestsellers.

“It is no longer about broadcasting at audiences -- it is about building with them. Culture used to trickle down from a few media gatekeepers. Today, it bubbles up from creators.”

The founder of The Fashion Heist, who has 56,000 followers on Instagram and 130,000 on TikTok noted culture is not built in a boardroom.

“[Brands] join it, learn its language, and earn the right to grow within it.

“The smartest brands are not just advertising to people, they are joining communities, speaking their language, [and] earning their trust … that is how you shape demand in 2025.

“What is more important to your growth? Dominating a category or belonging in a community?”